Talk:William Hartnell

Anti-Semitic

@Editor510: I reverted your edit which changed "anti-Semitic" to "antisemitic". My reason, as stated in my edit summary, was that this is probably an WP:ENGVAR thing, giving Collins as a reference for British English. You have chosen not to follow WP:BRD, but reinstated your edit with the untrue claim that you're "not going to edit war this", when that's exactly what you've just done. I've checked the following reliable sources of usage of "antisemitic" for the meaning used in this article:

• Cambridge, which lists both, but reserves "antisemitic" for the meaning used in this article;
• dictionary.com, which lists "antisemitic" with "anti-Semitic" as an alternative spelling;
• Collins, which lists "anti-Semitic" with "antisemitic" as an alternative;
• Merriam-Webster, which lists only "anti-Semitic";
• Oxford, which lists only "anti-Semitic".

Please follow your resolve to not edit-war and reinstate "anti-Semitic", before continuing this discussion. We need to remember that the English language is defined by recorded usage, not prescription. Bazza (talk) 15:18, 8 January 2024 (UTC)

Service in the armed forces in World War II

The article says:

• From the outbreak of the Second World War, Hartnell attempted to volunteer for the RAF. He served in the British Army in the Tank Corps, but he was invalided out after 18 months as the result of a nervous breakdown and returned to acting.

He cannot have served in the Tank Corps because there was a reorganisation in April 1939, and battalions of the former Royal Tank Corps became battalions of the Royal Tank Regiment (RTR). The Royal Armoured Corps (RAC) was created in April 1939, and included the RTR and regiments from the cavalry of the line that had mechanised. Note that there were further reorganisations and mergers during World War II, so that by 1944 infantry division reconnaissance regiments were also RAC.

There was an interview with Hartnell in The Sunday Post on 20 February 1966 (page 9):

"What did you do in the war?

I was told I was too old to be a pilot. So I entered the Royal Armoured Corps and served two years as a tank commander.

I was in the thick of it, But it was all too much for me. I had a complete nervous breakdown, and was sent to Durham Military Hospital, developed a terrible stammer and stutter, and eventually got my ticket.

Incidentally, my first acting part after discharge and recovery was a stuttering part. Everybody thought I was great. Little did they know I couldn't help it."

-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:39, 2 June 2026 (UTC)

References

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William Hartnell

• ... that before he played the Doctor, William Hartnell (pictured) was known for his tough sergeant roles?

• Source: Carney 1995, It is strange that he should be remembered for a children's programme when he had previously been most famous for the tough sergeants, crooks or men in uniform he had portrayed in countless British films of the forties. (link)

• • ALT1: ... that despite claiming in interviews that he was the son of a soldier, stockbroker, or dairy farmer, William Hartnell (pictured) never knew his father? Source: Carney 1996, did his father really have three changes of career, from soldier to stockbroker to dairy farmer? ... The worst aspect for Bill was that he never even knew the identity of his father.
  • ALT2: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) was first credited as "Billy Pickles"? Source: Barnes 2024, Among the juveniles supplied by legendary drama tutor Italia Conti was one 'Billie Pickles', dressed as 'Spot the Dog'
  • ALT3: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) served 258 days in the Army during World War II, but hated the thought of killing someone? Source: Carney 1996, The discipline of the regime was tough and the though of killing someone was difficult to cope with ... In the end he suffered a minor nervous breakdown and was discharged from the army on 1st July 1941, having served only 258 days.
  • ALT4: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) starred in a film with George Carney, who later became his daughter's father-in-law? Source: Carney 1996, The Agitator, also featuring other actors such as John Laurie and George Carney, my other grandfather
  • ALT5: ... that Billy Hartnell became William Hartnell (pictured) for serious roles? Source: Carney 1996, The last role completely killed off Bill's early image as a comedian, and in view of this he was always not billed as 'William Hartnell' rather than 'Billy'. ... this was at the behest of British National who thought his serious roles deserved a more serious-sounding name.
  • ALT6: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) taught Richard Attenborough to drive? Source: Comet 1947, Unable to drive himself, [Richard Attenborough] has come to an agreement with William Hartnell, famous 'tough guy' actor, who is his right-hand man in the film, to teach him on the drive home at night from the studio. ([link])
  • ALT7: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) performed in the West End for more than 1,500 performances in the same role? Source: Rodford 1968, He felt that about Seagulls Over Sorrento ... It nearly ran him into the ground with its 1,551 performances in the West End. (link)
  • ALT8: ... that despite considering television "an awful medium", William Hartnell (pictured) was the leading actor in programmes like The Army Game and Doctor Who? Source: North 1957, "I was worried stiff. This is an awful medium; far worse than films. You just don't know what is going to happen." (link)
    • ALT8a: ... that the first of fifteen people to play Doctor Who's title character (pictured) considered television an "awful medium"?
  • ALT9: ... that William Hartnell's (pictured) absence from The Army Game was "possibly the most highly publicised horsefly bite ever"? Source: Carney 1996, When Bill got bitten by a horsefly less than six weeks after the start of The Army Game, and had to have a few weeks off because he developed blood poisoning, almost every paper carried the story. It was possibly the most highly publicised horsefly bite ever.
  • ALT10: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) found Daleks "difficult to play to"? Source: DoctorWho.tv
  • ALT11: ... that despite being accused of homophobia, racism, and antisemitism, William Hartnell's (pictured) closest friends on Doctor Who included two Jewish women and a gay Indian man? Source: The Telegraph; Carney 1996, Bill adored Carole Ann Ford and Verity Lambert who were both Jewish, and had great respect for Waris Hussein, who was Indian
  • Reviewed: The Most Dangerous Games & She Knows Too Much
  • Comment: Apologies—such an interesting and illustrious career inevitably leads to too many options.

5x expanded by Rhain (talk). Number of QPQs required: 2. DYK is currently in unreviewed backlog mode and nominator has 103 past nominations.

– Rhain ☔ ^he
_him 00:00, 7 September 2026 (UTC).

• I would go with some variation on ALT12: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) was the first of fifteen people to play his best known role?, though I haven't checked the article. Of the existing hooks, the only ones I find interesting are ALT4, which I would render as ALT4a: ... that William Hartnell (pictured) once starred in a film with his future brother-in-law?, ALT8, which I would cut down to ALT8a: ... that the first of fifteen people to play Doctor Who's title character (pictured) considered television an "awful medium"?, possibly ALT9 (but you'll want 'was described as' rather than 'was'), and ALT11, which I'd render as ALT11a: ... that the first actor to play Doctor Who's title character (pictured) was remembered by some for his racism, homophobia, and antisemitism?.--Launchballer 13:01, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Carney and Hartnell were not brothers-in-law—that term refers to your sibling's husband, your spouse's brother, or (to some) your spouse's sibling's husband. – Rhain ☔ ^he
_him 21:26, 7 September 2026 (UTC)

Split acting credits?

Rhain Superb job expanding the article! However, it's now quite large at over 320k bytes. Perhaps we could split Hartnell's acting credits into their own page? Especially since everything is sourced now. Just a thought :-) – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 14:53, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

Thanks! This definitely crossed my mind, especially as it's been done elsewhere, though I'm personally fond of keeping all the information in one place wherever possible. FWIW, splitting the tables would still leave the article at ~280k bytes (and the split list itself at ~70k) so the difference isn't hugely significant, but of course others are more than welcome to disagree. – Rhain ☔ ^he
_him 23:44, 8 September 2026 (UTC)

I get what you mean, but I think WP:ARTICLESIZE applies here. Even at 70k, that's a pretty decent size for a list article, probably larger than a lot of featured ones, and larger than Troughton and Pertwee's ones currently (although those are lacking many sources). I personally think it's warranted, but I'm fine with gaining consensus first. – zmbro _{(talk) (cont)} 21:22, 9 September 2026 (UTC)

WP:AS says surprisingly little about when to split markup-wise. At ~11k words, it's definitely at the upper end of WP:SIZERULE, though splitting the tables doesn't change that anyway. I agree that 70k bytes is decent for a list, but it only saves ~40k here so I'm largely apathetic; I'm certainly not strongly opposed if others feel differently. – Rhain ☔ ^he
_him 21:48, 9 September 2026 (UTC)