Talk:War of Mutina

Anything majorly missing?

@T8612 and Avilich: Anything major missing from this draft? Ifly6 (talk) 21:02, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Avilich

No, it looks very good. Just remove the primary sources section, since none are really cited, and the cultural depictions, which is unsourced. Avilich (talk) 00:25, 27 November 2022 (UTC) Also, I'm not sure that there needs to be three belligerents in the infobox, unless we firmly consider the political developments after Antony's flight, during which Octavian was clearly a separate party, to be part of the overall war. Avilich (talk) 00:31, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I include the portion on ancient sources because I have anchors like Golden 2013, p. 202, citing App. BCiv., 3.81.330–32. Per below, I think it should expand to include the Philippics and Cicero's letters, though I'm not sure we have a "canonical" source online – like LacusCurtius (Perseus' copies are really poorly formatted, I don't know why,) – for them. Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I think it's better to just provide the unabbreviated primary source in the footnotes then, since running out of space there isn't a concern. On the other hand, I see no point in including the edition (Loeb), website (LacusCurtius), and year of publication (1913) for those. The url, and just about everything that's really necessary, can be put in the footnote. Avilich (talk) 19:02, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

T8612

The lede tells the events, but not the context. It should be said that this is the first civil war that followed the assassination of Caesar. The situation arose by the rivalry between Caesar's two heirs, Octavian and Antony, and the senate led by Cicero that wished to return to normalcy (or functional republican institutions). Then, it should also be said that there was three sides in the conflict, so after the sentence "attempted to woo Julius Caesar's heir (today known in this period as Octavian) to fight against Antony", I would add sth like "but Octavian pursued his own agenda".

Y Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

The lede should tell that the war was fought in northern Italy. I think you can add a new paragraph in the lede to better describe the events.

Y for northern Italy. Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

"After the assassination of Julius Caesar,..." move the date to this sentence. "The liberatores,...", I would prefer if they were cited here, not in the following paragraph. I would reword a paragraph to tell about the assassination.

Could you clarify as to what you mean about cited here? What would you have me tell about the assassination? Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Just sum up the assassination in one short paragraph. Here you assume that everybody knows about it. So it should start by "On 15 March 44 Julius Caesar was assassinated by/because etc." T8612 (talk) 12:33, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Added. Ifly6 (talk) 15:34, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

"Antony's political decisions are unclear: some scholars", can you tell who are these scholars? Is Rawson one of them?

Unhelpfully, I checked CAH² 9 and Rawson just says The policies of the actors in these events are difficult to assess. Expanded to a quote. Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Can you add dates in titles? for example "Forum Gallorum (14 April 43 BC)"

I think this is done in the lede, though I'm not sure exactly which titles you meant. Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

I meant titles like this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ifly6/War_of_Mutina#Forum_Gallorum T8612 (talk) 12:34, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Done. Ifly6 (talk) 15:28, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Regarding primary sources, you could either mention them somewhere or make a small section, which would tell the sources for the events. I would say that the war is known in good details thanks to Cicero's works. The Philippics should definitely be mentioned in the bibliography.

I will do (and should have done) this. Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

@T8612: I know that this is true. I can't find, however, something that just says that we know lots of things about this war and its background because of Cicero's letters and Philippics. Any ideas? Ifly6 (talk) 15:37, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Not now, sorry, I'm too busy to explore the bibliography. T8612 (talk) 00:58, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

Sure. Fully understandable. I'll continue to take a look about. Ifly6 (talk) 04:55, 29 November 2022 (UTC)

I would remove the template "Ancient Rome and the fall of the Republic". It doesn't bring anything.

Y Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Make a new section title "Aftermath" above "After the consuls' deaths".

Y Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

The "Result" field in the infobox is probably too complicated (see here). I would perhaps limit it to "Mark Antony's defeat", which is the immediate result (perhaps you can add "see aftermath"). T8612 (talk) 15:53, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Reworded to "Antony defeated. Political reconfiguration follows." Ifly6 (talk) 23:49, 27 November 2022 (UTC)

Duration of the war

Does the war end with Mutina or does it end with the senate's defeat when Octavian marches on Rome and allies himself with Antony and Lepidus? Ifly6 (talk) 15:48, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

I would end it with the latter, even though the other is correct too. T8612 (talk) 00:57, 29 November 2022 (UTC)