Talk:WMMS

"Limited coverage"

"Sharing limited coverage" is misleading. All Monsters games are broadcast on the radio, with 3 stations (WKNR/WHK/99X) splitting the coverage (save a couple of stragglers 850 bumps over to 1540). They share coverage...period. "Limited" makes it sound like there's only a few games on the radio, and that those few games are split. No need to add that qualifier.

Vjmlhds (talk) 00:25, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

@Vjmlhds: On the contrary, stating the three radio outlets share coverage without any qualifier is misleading. It implies all three outlets share the full Monsters schedule, when in reality each outlet only airs approximately one-third of the full schedule. WKNR airs limited coverage in that in airs only 32 of the 76 total games. WHK airs limited coverage in that it airs only 18 of the 76 total games. And, yes, 99X airs limited coverage in that it only airs 22 of the 76 total games. Put another way: most Monsters games do *not* air on 99X. Levdr1lp / talk 14:02, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

@Levdr1lp: Point taken. Standing down. Vjmlhds (talk) 14:51, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

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Station markets

In response to these edits, I'm not in any way convinced that a radio station market (and/or COL) should necessarily be placed in parentheses. Levdr1lp / talk 09:28, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

A slash, to me, is the wrong separator because a slash means "or" or "also". So, a correct use of a slash would be, for example, WHK-FM/WMMS. The Popular Communications style would be WMMS/100.7-Cleveland. I'm not even sure something has to separate the callsign and the community of license, e.g. "WMMS Cleveland". A slash is the wrong symbol as separation isn't it's function. "WMMS/100.7 Cleveland" would be a proper use of the slash, as it's another aspect of the station's identity, a "what", like WMMS is, instead of a where. Wikipedia's own page about the slash defines, among its functions, as connecting alternatives. To a Clevelander/Clevelandite (not sure which is which), "100.7" would be an alternative to WMMS when talking about the station, but "Cleveland" is not (same with anywhere else, Cleveland and WMMS are not equal to each other). So, separating a station from its market with a slash is incorrect. A slash does not perform that function. It can separate cities (WSNE-FM Taunton/Providence) or 2 markets a station serves (WCTK New Bedford/Providence), but not a callsign from its community of license/market. I think a simple space suffices.Stereorock (talk) 15:29, 13 August 2016 (UTC)

I seriously doubt readers will misread a slash used in this way as meaning "or" or "also". You said it yourself: "Cleveland and WMMS are not equal to each other." I couldn't agree more- the possibility of a callsign and market/COL being seen as equivalent to each other is so very remote that it's almost not even worth addressing. The Callsign-Slash-Market format is often used on Wikipedia as it's simple, direct, accessible, and more importantly, reflects a common usage found in reliable coverage on the radio industry. Recent examples include:

• WMMR/Philadelphia (FMQB.com)
• KROQ/Los Angeles (AllAccess.com)
• 50+ similar examples (Radio Ink)

The first time any radio station is noted, that radio station is linked w/ a wikilink to the station's article. Does a reader really need to know the frequency of WRIF/Detroit in a Cleveland radio station article, particularly when the WRIF article is linked, or is the market itself more relevant and useful? I say market. For reasons of clarity and organization, I also find it preferable to link a callsign & market together w/ a slash, especially when listing multiple stations in a row like in the case of the Rover's Morning Glory affiliates. I suppose one could use a space instead, but a slash communicates to the reader that the callsign/market combination denotes a single thing (station) rather than two things (station, city). The market name is a modifier, and the slash emphasizes this (probably why it's commonly used in the industry publications). Levdr1lp / talk 06:38, 14 August 2016 (UTC)

Play-by-play modifier

The station is already an FM station & calling it as such is more akin to comparing it to AM versus online.Stereorock (talk) 14:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Stereorock- Obviously the station is FM. However, it shares flagship status with an AM station-- in other words, it is an *FM* flagship airing play-by-play on the *FM* band (also significant as play-by-play has traditionally aired much more on AM). Moreover, play-by-play is limited to the over-the-air *FM* broadcast and does not stream online via the station webcast (though with endless promotion of the iHeartRadio website & app, readers might incorrectly assume play-by-play is also online as nearly all radio station webstreams simulcast nearly all over-the-air programming). Hence the emphasis of the over-the-air FM broadcast band. Levdr1lp / talk 14:27, 30 September 2018 (UTC)

Levdr1lp Putting “FM” in makes it look like there’s an A.M. side of WMMS. That being said, changing it to “Over-the-air play-by-play” wouldn’t be accurate because it also talks about streaming. The cleanest & clearest way to retire the section would be “Sports play-by-play”. Put in the section about teams also being heard on WTAM. Saying “FM” in the section head is misleading in that you’re trying to achieve 2 things here with it (comparing it to A.M., & streaming) and it’s too broad. Putting in “FM” in the title is only worthwhile when the article is talking about an A.M./F.M. simulcast that occasionally does break for separate games.Stereorock (talk) 02:22, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Stereorock- No reader of this article could possibly think there is some "AM side of WMMS"; nowhere in the lead, infobox, main body, or any subsection is there any reference to an AM signal broadcast from this station. And so, yes, changing the header to "Over-the-air play-by-play" would be not only be accurate (as it clearly informs readers of the situation), but also more specific and more descriptive (if a bit clunky). Emphasizing in the header that play-by-play is limited to the traditional over-the-air broadcast concisely summarizes the situation described in the section text. In 2018, it is reasonable to assume that, by default, a broadcast radio station streams its programming online. It is more noteworthy if/when a station does not stream its programming online, such as the case here, and the content ought to clearly reflect that. Levdr1lp / talk 11:11, 2 October 2018 (UTC)

Levdr1lp: When I think of F.M., the natural compliment to it is A.M. (apples to apples), not streaming (apples to oranges), so I think there *is* an avenue of possible confusion. I see "FM play-by-play" & I think "as opposed to what? A.M.?" It didn't even occur to me that streaming is what it is being compared to, & that, I think, is the problem. You're right in that pretty much every station does stream now, so putting "FM" seems odd. To me, the line should be clear, and it's not initially clear why "FM" is there. This is why I am pushing for it to be renamed *simply* Play-by-play as that is brief, but concise enough, to not only get across what the section is really about, but also broad enough to cover the air signal and streaming. Sports should be put in front of play-by-play if the station airs more than one sport; if not it should say whatever that team is.Stereorock (talk) 22:01, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Stereorock- WMMS -- the subject of this article -- is available for listening primarily one of two ways: through over-the-air broadcast FM; or through online streaming. (Incidentally, it's the latter which is increasingly relevant in the digital age, particularly for a more traditional media outlet which targets a relatively younger demographic.) At no point in this article is it ever stated or even implied that there is some AM-type of listening alternative for WMMS itself, because (obviously) there isn't one. No reader of this article could possibly think WMMS broadcasts over AM, and so no reader will think "FM in this section header makes me wonder if WMMS-on-AM is a potential alternative way to listen". What's more likely -- with your preferred version -- is for readers to incorrectly assume that play-by-play is available both over-the-air *and* online, especially given the constant promotion of, and listener push toward iHeartRadio. On the other hand, stating Rover is available both ways would be unnecessary because it's understood to be the case by default. The same goes for Alan Cox, or rock music shifts, or just about any other station programming. The lone exception is play-by-play, which is *only* available over-the-air. That's why it's noted in the section. And that's why it should be emphasized in the header. Moreover, "sports play-by-play" is less informative (overlooks the online restriction) and redundant (play-by-play is already a type of sports program). Levdr1lp / talk 02:26, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Levdr1lpI disagree because as I stated previously, seeing “FM” brings up the question “why is FM stated here?” and the natural compliment to FM is AM, not online. It sounds like you’re assuming somebody has already read through everything else prior to this section header, and is familiar with WMMS, whereas I am not assuming such a thing. Calling the section “Sports play-by-play” works it does not assume anything about what the reader may already know or not know about the station. It does not assume one way or the other about over-the-air vs. online listening, which is explained in full in the section, which is where FM vs. online listening options should be explained. It’s simple, clear, & not confusing. That WMMS is ostensively a rock station that airs sports as well, instead of being a rock station at all hours is more of an attention-grabber because, again, it assumes a casual reader has skipped over the frequency & format sections, or at the very least, just saw them as words. Maybe they came to that section directly from a wikilink. Calling the section “Sports play-by-play” reinforces the notion that this is a rock station that also airs sports, instead of being all rock all the time. Stereorock (talk) 12:51, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Stereorock- I agree that readers may wonder "Why is FM stated here?", and you are correct that the (traditional) compliment to FM is AM, as they are both broadcast radio bands. But you overlook a few points. First, you keep assuming that "FM" in the header only serves one purpose: to distinguish the over-the-air FM broadcast from the online webcast. It also serves a second purpose. WMMS is noted as the "FM flagship" in both the lead and programming section, because WMMS *shares* its status as a flagship station with an AM sister station. I don't see anything wrong with emphasizing "FM" in a programming section which describes an FM flagship sharing coverage in a single market with its AM sister. (Incidentally, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that readers have *read* at least the lead of this article; there are no incoming links to the play-by-play subsection, nor do I anticipate any.) Second, broadcast radio stations in general -- and especially those owned by iHeartMedia like WMMS -- are increasingly directing listeners online. The proliferation of mobile devices and bluetooth technology has had and will continue to have a major impact of traditional broadcast radio listening habits. The very fact play-by-play itself is generally not available online is reflective of this dynamic (leagues are better able to control and monetize play-by-play through subscription services). It's misleading to ignore this. Lastly, as I previously noted, your preferred version ("sports play-by-play") is both less informative in that it ignores the restriction to the over-the-air broadcast; and redundant as "play-by-play" is itself a type of sports broadcast. No reader will think "play-by-play" refers to cooking or dating or roadwork or whatever else. Why not communicate more to the reader rather than less, particularly when it's a better summary of the section's content? It matters less what readers might wonder "FM" implies ("as opposed to what? AM?"), and more what it literally states. "FM play-by-play" is just that: play-by-play via the over-the-air FM broadcast. Levdr1lp / talk 19:49, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Levdr1lpLet me ask you this, as I am not in Cleveland, so I can not hear WMMS: is the play-by-play that airs on WMMS the same, or different, from WTAM? The part about "FM play-by-play" to me indicates that these are separate, and different, feeds. Stereorock (talk) 20:23, 7 October 2018 (UTC)

Per this discussion at Stereorock's talk page, I am changing the header to "Broadcast play-by-play". Levdr1lp / talk 21:24, 7 October 2018 (UTC)