Talk:Metal Gear: Ghost Babel

Ambiguous Description

The page says the game "is neither a prequel nor a sequel", but then it says it "serves as an alternate sequel". So, is the game a sequel or is it an alternate for Metal Gear Solid on the Playstation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.110.125.34 (talk) 17:23, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

13th July 2019 Page Move

"Solid" has been mispelt as "Soild" in the title. AnOrdinaryBoy (talk) 02:53, 15 July 2019 (UTC)

Page move.

To be honest, I would prefer if the article was titled Metal Gear: Ghost Babel as well, but I think I would stick to guidelines for formality sakes. Even the Kojima Productions' website list this game as "Metal Gear Solid (GBC version)". There are numerous other gaming franchises where different installment share the same title. Castlevania, Ninja Gaiden, and Bionic Commando all come to mind. Jonny2x4 (talk) 04:11, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

Even wiki formalities didn't bar the Yoshi's Universal Gravitation article. This page should be moved. Splïtter (talk) 12:10, 21 April 2014 (UTC)

The Splïtter is being ridiculous

Regardless of canonicity, the events of this game clearly do not take place in the main timeline. Metal Gear Solid makes it clear that Snake met Mei Ling in 2005 and MGS4 makes it clear that Big Boss survived the events of Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake while Ghost Babel shows that Big Boss died in Outer Heaven and never created Zanzibar Land. There should be no debate about its place in the main timeline. The game takes place in an alternate universe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.59.223.143 (talk) 23:25, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 4 January 2015

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page not moved. Rider ranger47 ^Talk 15:29, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

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(non-admin closure)

Metal Gear: Ghost Babel → Metal Gear Solid (Game Boy Color)Metal Gear Solid (Game Boy Color) – Restore original title from undiscussed move & rewrite. (The NA or European box art should also be restored, rather than the JP box art.) WP:NCVG is clear: use the "official title in the initial English release", not the Japanese release, barring a good reason. This game is "Metal Gear Solid" in North America & Europe, and the fact a parenthetical disambiguator is needed isn't cause to use the Japanese name instead. SnowFire (talk) 18:27, 4 January 2015 (UTC)

I know this is an unpopular use of WP:COMMONNAME, but could it be argued that "Ghost Babel" is the common name of the game? I'm reluctantly supporting a move, but only because we don't have a clear common name. ONR (talk) 20:14, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• It could be, yes. I wouldn't be surprised if within the online Metal Gear / gaming fandom, it's known more as Ghost Babel by those who care simply for clarity's sake. (My one exposure to this, via an SA LP, certainly used "Ghost Babel.") However, I'd have to assume that among casual gamers / review sites / etc., it's still better known by the title on the box (if known at all), and that would presumably be a majority of people. I can certainly be convinced to use COMMONNAME especially when an official English language release is obscure and/or irrelevant, but I don't think this game qualifies for that. SnowFire (talk) 21:03, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

• If this is moved we should put the NA Box art back up since it was there before the Japanese one.--67.68.161.176 (talk) 04:01, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

• Actually, we can use either the Western or the Japanese cover art, regardless of title change. --George Ho (talk) 05:07, 16 January 2015 (UTC)

• Actually actually, we should use a Western release of the art regardless of whether the article is moved - see WP:VGBOX / WP:STOPCHANGINGIT. "English language covers are preferred for identification." To be sure there are exceptions, but "match the arbitrary Wikipedia title" is a weak one to use. SnowFire (talk) 18:44, 20 January 2015 (UTC)

• Oppose per WP:NATURAL. Despite regional differences, because natural disambiguation is possible, we should use what the Japanese release has used since the release. I'm sick and tired of using parenthetical disambiguation in many articles. --George Ho (talk) 05:06, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support - per nomination. Also, I know its only anecdotal, but I've never really heard it be referenced as "Ghost Babel" in English sources, so it seems like WP:COMMONNAME may very well apply as well. Sergecross73 msg me 21:33, 22 January 2015 (UTC)
• Comment Some sources using "Ghost Babel" I found with quick Google search: nintendo.co.uk, uk-blog.konami-europe.com, Destructoid, Pelaaja --Mika1h (talk) 00:57, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
• Support - per nomination. There is no way to check whether WP:COMMONNAME applies to either name in non-Japanese circles. MGS fans and game magazines and websites might call it Ghost Babel just to avoid any confusion, it was released as Metal Gear Solid in other territories. I did notice that Game Informer, GameRankings and GameSpot call it Metal Gear Solid. Since Wikipedia is written for a large audience, and not just gamers or people interested in video games, I think WP:NCVG does apply here. And besides, the original Japanese name is mentioned. --Soetermans. T / C 10:58, 23 January 2015 (UTC)
• Oppose - The game is referenced by its original title in the credits for Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty and in the Extra Ops for Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes. I think the game is commonly known as Ghost Babel well enough that it could use the original title on this site. Jonny2x4 (talk) 02:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Oppose I am for keeping the Ghost Babel name. This game is widely known as Ghost Babel and changing it to MGS will make it harder to find it on Wikipedia.Oranjelo100 (talk) 06:10, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Comments on above RM

Two opposes in short succession followed by a NAC on the same day before they could be responded to... well, it was a long-in-the-tooth RM.

Anyway, the name in the credits of MGS2 / MGS5 doesn't appear amazingly relevant to me? Perhaps it implies the "official title" via retcon, but eh. For the "game is widely known as Ghost Babel" argument, nobody has actually provided any evidence this is the case, and it's difficult to say because the game isn't well-known in general.

Not going to re-open the RM myself, but figured I'd say my piece regardless. SnowFire (talk) 22:50, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree, SnowFire. The supposedly common name can't be verified. I actually provided a couple of sources that show differently. All the references in the article that actually use Ghost Babel are Japanese. Even if it is indeed called Ghost Babel in two English translations, that still doesn't mean we should call it that too. Besides, from a game developer's point of view, it would make more sense just to call it Ghost Babel, assuming the player knows what is meant and not having to go through calling it "the Metal Gear Solid that came out on the Game Boy Advance." That's just relying on in-universe universe information. But Wikipedia is written for a large audience, not MGS fans or even the general video gamer. The argument that it "wouldn't be easy to find" doesn't hold water because we would redirect it to the correct title (just as Ghost Babel redirects already) and the Japanese name will be put on top in the lead. --Soetermans. T / C 14:53, 2 February 2015 (UTC)

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Special Missions and pre-MGS2 Raiden appearance

It seems like a recent Gamechamp3000 video has prompted some people to note that the postgame unlockable "Special Missions" actually alluding to the player controlling Raiden in that version of the game, rather than Solid Snake. I'm not sure about the stated canonicity of Ghost Babel, but is there any reliable source that backs up the claim? It's already been added to Raiden's page, but without a source. Ithinkiplaygames (talk) 23:02, 30 April 2023 (UTC)

The fact that at the end of VR training, N°4 calls you Jack and there are only 3 people with that name in the entire Metal Gear series, those being Big Boss, Raiden, and Ivan Raidenovitch Raikov. Only Raiden is known to have gone under VR training. Also we could just say that it was his first mention or something instead of appearance 151.67.127.133 (talk) 22:02, 19 February 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 12 February 2026

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Agent 007 (talk) 19:44, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

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• Metal Gear Solid (2000 video game) → Metal Gear: Ghost Babel
• Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game) → Metal Gear Solid (video game)

– I've debated making this RM for a while now, but today I felt like going ahead with it in light of recent announcements.

While both names are in theory valid, I believe that Metal Gear: Ghost Babel is the WP:COMMONNAME of Metal Gear Solid (2000 video game), and it should be moved to that title, with the original Metal Gear Solid video game moved as well to compensate. My points are as follows:

1. While a lot of sources do refer to it as simply Metal Gear Solid, it's generally within the context of only talking about that game. But when you look for sources that discuss the series as a whole, you will start to see a lot that refer to it as Ghost Babel. A few examples: . Even sources that do choose to refer to it as just Metal Gear Solid seem to point out that it's also named Ghost Babel.
2. The game was referred to as Ghost Babel from the beginning in its initial release country of Japan, and by technicality, a bit before it made its way to the United States. This should especially be noted as we have articles where we refer to a release based on what it was originally called. For example, Yoshi's Universal Gravitation is called such because that's the title it goes by in most regions, even if Topsy-Turvy is used sometimes.
3. Ghost Babel is a more precise, valid name that eliminates the need for a disambiguation.
4. Perhaps most importantly and what got me to make this request today specifically, a re-release of this game was recently announced as part of the second volume of the Metal Gear Solid Master Collection. Even in the United States (and everywhere, for that matter), the game is now officially being referred to by Konami as Ghost Babel.

The move would also allow Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game) to be moved to simply Metal Gear Solid (video game) without issue, as the release year disambiguation would no longer be necessary and the 1998 game is the obvious WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. A disambiguation hatnote could be kept on that article to guide people to this article, if they are still looking for it. λ NegativeMP1 23:29, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

Support Was just about to make this RM myself! Ghost Babel has been the common name in English for a while, and Konami themselves refer to it as such.

It should also be noted that the article was previously named "Metal Gear: Ghost Babel", and was moved undiscussed in 2019 in violation of RM policy (undiscussed moves require that "[t]here has been no previous discussion about the title of the page that expressed any objection to a new title", and a previous attempt to move it had failed). PolarManne (talk) 23:44, 12 February 2026 (UTC)

• Neutral 1, oppose 2. Metal Gear Solid (video game) is clearly ambiguous and should redirect to Metal Gear. 162 etc. (talk) 01:57, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

  If you were talking about just Metal Gear Solid (which does redirect to Metal Gear), you'd have a point. But I fail to see how Metal Gear Solid (video game) is ambiguous. We have two articles for a game simply named Metal Gear Solid; if this page is moved to Ghost Babel, then we'd have one. It would be clear that it is the page for the game simply titled Metal Gear Solid. λ NegativeMP1 02:13, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

  Moving the article to Metal Gear: Ghost Babel would not make the ambiguity magically disappear. 162 etc. (talk) 02:19, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

  But is there really that much ambiguity in the first place?

  Wouldn't a disambiguation page, if anything, be a better idea than redirecting the one ending in "video game" to the series article? If we do think that there's this much ambiguity to it. λ NegativeMP1 02:21, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

  Metal Gear can be considered a broad-concept article, which removes the need for a separate disambiguation page. See WP:CONCEPTDAB. 162 etc. (talk) 02:25, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

  Any ambiguity would be addressed by the following note at the top of the article for the original game:

  "This article is about the 1998 video game. For the 2000 video game, see Metal Gear: Ghost Babel” Swordofneutrality (talk) 08:52, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

• Support – I feel strongly that the Playstation game is an obvious WP:PRIMARYTOPIC, so I would approve of moving it to Metal Gear Solid (video game) regardless. Ghost Babel is in an awkward state because the two modern sources used in the article still call it exclusively "Metal Gear Solid" ( no 6; no 8). However, the even more recent sources posted by NegativeMP1 above are excellent and suggest the new name is indeed becoming the commonname. I am comfortable with this move. ~Maplestrip/Mable (chat) 10:01, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

  WP:PRIMARYTOPIC would imply moving the article to Metal Gear Solid; what's being proposed here (Metal Gear Solid (video game)) is known as a WP:PDAB. 162 etc. (talk) 16:31, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

• Oppose Per WP:NCVGDAB. Both games are commonly known as MGS, and this move does not make the ambiguity vanish as stated above. ᴢxᴄᴠʙɴᴍ (ᴛ) 15:19, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

  What at NCVGDAB goes against retitling the 2000 video game article to Ghost Babel? λ NegativeMP1 15:41, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

@NegativeMP1 Support per WP:NATURAL ThePoggingEditor (talk) 15:45, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

• Support per the provided arguments. -- Cyberlink420 (talk) 16:19, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

Admitting here that I'm starting to become indifferent regarding whether the 1998 video game should be moved to just "(video game)" or not. Comments going against it are fair. I am sure keeping the year is fine. However, I'm sticking to the proposal to move the 2000 game to Ghost Babel. λ NegativeMP1 16:43, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

If this article gets moved to Ghost Babel, then there's no more point to having the year disambiguation for the 1998 game since the sole purpose of that was meant to differentiate from this article. ThePoggingEditor (talk) 19:02, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

As I've argued above, sources refer to the 2000 video game as "Metal Gear Solid" - choosing a different title on Wikipedia does not make that reality go away, and therefore the ambiguity still exists. 162 etc. (talk) 21:16, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

Assuming the move requests are successful, I think this is an easily solvable problem by having this:

This is about the 1998 video game. For the North American release of the 2000 Game Boy Color game, see Metal Gear: Ghost Babel.

And then having "titled Metal Gear Solid in its initial North American release".

This is pretty much the exact same situation Final Fantasy IV and VI were in when they were released in NA initially as II and III, so I think we could take some cues from there. If you look at the articles for II and III, you'll see at the top that they have links to IV and VI at their tops respectively. ThePoggingEditor (talk) 22:39, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

I note that a 2019 RM determined, with unanimous support, that Metal Gear Solid was ambiguous. If that's the case, then Metal Gear Solid (video game) is just as ambiguous. See Talk:Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game)#Requested move 6 December 2019. 162 etc. (talk) 17:31, 14 February 2026 (UTC)

@162 etc. I'm familiar with that move request, and I think it was a good decision. When it comes to video games with the exact name "Metal Gear Solid" though, people tend to think of MGS1, a canon title considered one of the best and influential games of all time, and not Ghost Babel, a non-canon spin-off retitled in North America to capitalize on MGS1's success. I still think it is worth it to keep mention of Ghost Babel at the top of MGS1's page, however. I can do some searching amongst secondary sources if you don't agree with this sentiment. ThePoggingEditor (talk) 05:11, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

• Support per WP:NATDAB and basically what Mable said. —  HELLKNOWZ ∣ TALK 16:55, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

Support move to Ghost Babel. Natural choice for a disambiguation. Magneton Considerer: Pokelego999 (Talk) (Contribs) 19:17, 13 February 2026 (UTC)

Support It's not only WP:COMMONNAME, but there's already a game called Metal Gear Solid, two of three regions called it Ghost Babel on its original release and now even the Master Collection refers to it as Ghost Babel in all regions. There is no reason for this game to continue to be titled Metal Gear Solid on Wikipedia. Blast-type (talk) 12:24, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

Support was initially going to not support it per COMMONNAME, but if the new release of it calls it Ghost Babel, this might save some potentially confusion when discussion the games even outside the project when having to mention both together. I was less convinced by the initial arguments showing it from random listicles as I found the English-language reviews of the game at the time were more in-depth than a brief mention in a listicle. The newer title is more likely how people will experience the game at this time. Andrzejbanas (talk) 17:37, 15 February 2026 (UTC)

Support per nom. Very good points. Axem Titanium (talk) 19:39, 21 February 2026 (UTC)

Support Use the actual names of the games titles. Guz13 (talk) 23:16, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

Support Per nom. If the game was originally titled "Metal Gear: Ghost Babel", and is now referred to as such in English marketing materials, then it's justified. Much of the old English-language coverage referred to the game as "Metal Gear Solid", but much of the incoming coverage will likely refer to it as Ghost Babel. For the purposes of distinction, I think that Ghost Babel is a better title, especially since the 1998 game is much more notable. This will allow both articles to have more concise titles without much sacrifice. This is a far different situation from Sonic the Hedgehog (1991 video game) and Sonic the Hedgehog (8-bit video game), where both games have the same product name, extremely similar box art, and were both released in 1991 despite being different games. Ghost Babel did not release in 1998, it was not originally called "Metal Gear Solid", and it does not have similar marketing materials to "Metal Gear Solid". There is no need for such unwieldy titles here. --LiquidSevens (talk) 23:38, 1 March 2026 (UTC)

Support both proposals. Ghost Babel is the common name, which renders the distinction by year of release unnecessary. Swordofneutrality (talk) 08:55, 2 March 2026 (UTC)

Oppose moving Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game) per 162 etc. No opinion on anything else. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:15, 14 March 2026 (UTC)

Support: I’ve read the points and I support this change ~2026-42953-5 (talk) 04:22, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Remember to comment using a colon, not a new section. Swordofneutrality (talk) 08:14, 12 March 2026 (UTC)

Support: "Metal Gear Solid" is widely used in reference to the PS1 game, not the Game Boy game. As for the Game Boy game, fans most commonly call it Ghost Babel to differentiate it from the PS1 game. Alkoline (talk) 12:29, 20 March 2026 (UTC)

Support: Strongly agree with the aforementioned points. Foxhound03 (talk) 14:21, 27 March 2026 (UTC)

Support per NATURAL and PRIMARYTOPIC. With Vol. 2 refering to the 2000 game as Ghost Babel in all regions, I feel it will also become the COMMONNAME. I contest what 162 is saying: there is no ambiguity in the title. Metal Gear Solid is just another name for the Metal Gear franchise. Confusion could be cleared up with a {{for}} template showing to Metal Gear and Ghost Babel. Adding on to what Swordofneutrality said, Sonic the Hedgehog (1991 video game) and Sonic the Hedgehog (8-bit video game) both released the same year and had almost identical marketing material and cover art. Additionally, there is another mainline Sonic game called Sonic the Hedgehog (2006 video game), thus necessitating a year name. There are only two games titled Metal Gear Solid, released 2 years apart, with different game structures and marketing, and the 1998 game being mainline and canon whereas the 2000 relase being a spinoff, non-canon game. The 🏎 Corvette 🏍 ZR1^{(The Garage)}

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• Reopened on 16 April 2026: On 31 March, I closed this discussion, and the move has already been executed. But as can be seen above, I also participated in the discussion, and my involvement also spilled over into other related discussions. Given those developments, I'm not so confident about my decision anymore, and am reopening the discussion so that a neutral, non-involved party can determine an outcome (or for more discussion to occur, who knows). Thus I have filed a request at WP:CR so that a third party can handle this. The discussion was previously closed another time, by another user, on 14 March. Their rationale was: "Moved, per COMMONNAME, WP:NATURAL, and WP:PTOPIC." My rationale for closing the discussion was this:

"Submitted to WP:RM/TR. Majority consensus reached in favor of moving Metal Gear Solid (2000 video game) to Metal Gear: Ghost Babel (17 support; 2 neutral; 1 oppose), per WP:NATURAL. Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game) will not be renamed at this time (there were 3 opposes). Much of the discussion from opposing users centered upon what should be done to said article if the other was renamed to "Metal Gear: Ghost Babel". Further discussion of the second proposal should be continued at Talk:Metal Gear Solid (1998 video game) instead, in order to expedite the consensual move to "Metal Gear: Ghost Babel". It should be noted that this discussion was previously non-admin closed (see Special:Diff/1343409509), but the discussion was re-opened due to WP:SWAP requiring elevated permissions."

It should also be noted that this discussion spilled over into Wikipedia:Redirects_for_discussion/Log/2026_April_7#Metal_Gear_Solid_(video_game) and Talk:Metal_Gear_Solid_(1998_video_game)#Requested_move_12_April_2026. --LiquidSevens (talk) 19:06, 16 April 2026 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.