Talk:Daniel Kahneman

Death location

Our article states Kahneman died on March 27, 2024 in Manhattan. A recent article in the Wall Street Journal quotes personal notes from Kahneman on the day before that he was heading to Switzerland to die an assisted death there on March 27, even though it doesn't explicitly confirm that Switzerland was indeed the place of death.

1. Is this enough evidence to change the place of death to Switzerland in the article (infobox)? I'm not sure where the claim he died in Manhattan came from.
2. Should we include discussion of Kahneman's (apparent) assisted suicide in the article? The WSJ is a reputable source, and I expect Kahneman's final actions here, assuming it's true, will come up in discussions of his life and of assisted suicide going forward, given his stature?

Apparently, as quoted by the article, his final email stated, "I am not embarrassed by my choice, but I am also not interested in making it a public statement. The family will avoid details about the cause of death to the extent possible, because no one wants it to be the focus of the obits. Please avoid talking about it for a few days." This seems to explain why this will not have been common knowledge right after his death, and also implies there is no fundamental long-lasting privacy concern to be weighing vs other factors when deciding if and how this should be discussed in the article.

Thoughts? Martinp (talk) 12:33, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

The current source is The Jerusalem Post which quotes the WSJ. I would have thought, as these are both WP:RS, that the two together would be sufficient support, although the WSJ article is behind a paywall. The previous source, from Times of Israel, said: "He lived in Manhattan at the time of his death" which looked pretty conclusive, but might be read with some degree of ambiguity? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2025 (UTC)

From WP's notification here {no email} Martinevans123 I see that you thanked me for my edit earlier today. Since I hadn't edited the article before and I hadn't looked here before editing it I was unaware of your comment. Mcljlm (talk) 13:48, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Ok, well thanks anyway. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:46, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello, this is Deborah Treisman, Daniel Kahneman's stepdaughter. The Wall Street Journal article by Jason Zweig was published over the objections of many family members and close friends and colleagues who wished to respect Kahneman's wish for his manner of death to remain private. That is no longer possible, of course. But the email/letter by Kahneman that was published in its entirety in the course of Jason Zweig's article was published in direct and deliberate violation of copyright law. The letter was obtained under false pretenses, and I explicitly communicated with WSJ lawyers, with Jason Zweig, and with Emma Tucker, the editor-in-chief, to inform them that copyright of the letter was held by the estate (of which I am the executor), and that they did not have permission to reproduce it in whole or in part. They proceeded, assuming that I wouldn't follow up with legal action. I'm now consulting with lawyers about doing just that. Since it was illegally published and is under copyright, I would appreciate it if Wikipedia would remove the quotation from that letter from this page. I hope this will be possible, and I look forward to hearing from you. I would also be grateful, if you could remove any link to Jason Zweig's piece in the WSJ. If it is helpful to you, I can confirm that Daniel Kahneman died in Switzerland, by voluntary assisted death, on March 27, 2024. I cannot give the name of the specific place in which he died, for confidentiality reasons relating to the organization that provided the assistance. Thank you. TNYFiction (talk) 18:03, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

I can also say that what's described here is not entirely accurate:

Given his personal experience with dementia, from which his mother and his wife Anne Treisman had suffered, Kahneman decided to approach the Swiss organization Pegasos, which offers legal assisted suicide in the hamlet of Roderis, part of the municipality of Nunningen, Switzerland.

The source seems to be "CH Media," which may have done some sleuthing, but does not actually know the course of events. Because it isn't accurate, I would ask that it be removed. Thank you. TNYFiction (talk) 18:23, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello TNTFiction. That really is most unfortunate. I expect that Paragem will want to comment, but if that quotation is from a document which is itself a copyright violation, I can't see how that can be allowed to remain here. A copyright expert editor like Diannaa will probably be able to advise. There maybe some official mechanism you need to use to prove your identity and you may have to declare a WP:CONFLICTOFINTEREST at this Talk page. Regards Martinevans123 (talk) 19:13, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Thanks. I'd be happy to do either of those things. Just let me know. Much appreciated. TNYFiction (talk) 19:47, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Dear Deborah,

dear Wikipedians,

I happen to live near the village of Nunningen, which has been purported as his death location by several media outlets. Myself, I only learned about his death from the Thursday, March 27th edition of my regional newspaper ("Wochenblatt"), which does not reference any sources. His death place was given as the hamlet of Roderis (I passed there some years ago while jogging), and the organisation was named as Pegasos, which indeed provides a secluded and calm place for people seeking assisted suicide, both from Switzerland and abroad, in Roderis. Wochenblatt also refers to Kahneman's personal experience with relatives that were suffering from dementia.

I then sought for a more reputable, non-paywalled source, and found it at nau.ch.

With the best regards, Paragem (talk) 20:17, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Hello Paragem, I'm sure you have edited in perfectly good faith. Do you have any comment on the very serious legal allegations that TNYFiction has made here, of which you were seemingly oblivious? Many thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 20:30, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi @Martinevans123, hi @TNYFiction, this thread is my first exposure whatsoever to this copyright hassle that Deborah has to deal with. The Wall Street Journal is referenced as the source in the Swiss, German-language story on nau.ch (but hidden behind a paywall), and therefore I could not check what WSJ was actually writing. Regarding the copyright violation itself, I can only say that copyright does not protect information itself, only the individualized, creative expression of information. So, the WSJ apparently reproduced Kahneman's writing entirely, without any serious debate or discussion of Kahneman's words, and while violating an agreement.

Reproducing a text in its entirety would even be permissible under the rather strict European copyright laws (more specific, the rules on citations), as long as the author actually examines and debates the entire text. It's rare, but it happens.

Best regards Paragem (talk) 21:59, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

I'm not sure Paragem if "hidden behind a paywall" referred to the WSJ or nau.ch. You can probably read the text of the nau article via one of the 2 archived versions at the Wayback Machine {I was able to access it directly, probably because I'd never looked at the site before}. The WSJ article can be read at archive.today. Mcljlm (talk) 05:38, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

@Mcljlm thanks! (I meant the WSJ article was paywalled. nau.ch is the freely accesible, ad-funded news portal - its name is obviously a play on the English "now".) Paragem (talk) 11:05, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Dear Paragem, thank you for this. I don't dispute that he died at Pegasos in Nunningen. What's not accurate is the assertion that he sought out and approached Pegasos. He was enrolled (if that's the right word) with a different organization, which ultimately made the arrangement with Pegasos for him. (I don't believe he had heard of Pegasos before that.) Pegasos also asks for confidentiality, and asks families not to give out information specifying location, etc. I have tried to respect that. As you say, some Swiss media outlets found this detail, probably by searching for the Swiss death certificate. I also don't dispute that my mother, Anne Treisman, had dementia in her last years. Danny's mother, Rachel, had memory loss, but was not, to my knowledge, officially diagnosed with dementia. In any case, I would be grateful if the quotation from the private letter, which was published in violation of copyright, could be removed from the Wikipedia page. Thank you. TNYFiction (talk) 20:31, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

I've deleted the mention of his mother. Mcljlm (talk) 21:31, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Hi Deborah,

I can readily imagine that Pegasos cares about strict confidentiality, but I've not heard of Swiss death certificates being publicly searchable. Publicly announced are only the deaths of registered inhabitants of each Swiss municipality (and when moving, you have to register with the new municipality within a few weeks).

I've only paraphrased from nau.ch (and the printed article from my regional Wochenblatt), and I am not aware of any information I've taken over from the WSJ article.

Thank you too, for coming here and stating your issues! Paragem (talk) 22:06, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, Paragem. If death certificates aren't searchable, I'm not sure exactly how the Swiss publications found this information. Only one person was present for the VAD, other than Pegasos staff, and that person would not have revealed this. It will remain a mystery--or perhaps it was through the local police, who had to do a basic investigation. I have done my duty by asking for the information not to be included here; beyond that, it is not in my control.

I do, however, stand by the request to remove the quoted passage from Daniel Kahneman's letter, which was illegally published in violation of both copyright law and my family's privacy. (The WSJ was well aware that they were violating copyright law, but assumed I wouldn't pursue it. The blatant disrespect of law, privacy, and decency in the name of sensationalized clickbait was shocking to me, and I work in the media!) TNYFiction (talk) 22:16, 30 March 2025 (UTC)

I re-read the print article on your stepfather's death that appeared in our regional newspaper, the "Wochenblatt" (which focuses on Laufen District and Thierstein District). The author is Andreas Maurer, and he works for several regional newspapers. I'm translating as literal as possible: "According to research of CH Media Kahneman used the services of the suicide help organization Pegasos in the hamlet Roderis of the municipality Nunningen SO." The "bz" acronym behind his name most probably refers to Basellandschaftliche Zeitung, another regional newspaper owned by CH Media. I hope this information is helpful to you. Paragem (talk) 01:02, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

In the absence of any response from Diannaa, I have now raised the issue of the email extract at Wikipedia:Copyright problems#Listings of possible copyright problems. But there seems to be quite a backlog there. Regards. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:48, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! TNYFiction (talk) 19:39, 31 March 2025 (UTC)

Note: still listed there, but "more complex cases often remain on the page for a while before being assessed". Martinevans123 (talk) 12:33, 10 April 2025 (UTC)

The report of the potential copywrite violation has been posted since 31 March and there is no indication it will be addressed any time soon. An abundance of caution suggests that, as requested, the long quote from the email should be commented out in this article until the matter has been fully resolved. This I have now done. Martinevans123 (talk) 13:01, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Thank you! I appreciate that. And if it is ever assessed, I'm happy to produce the copyright registration. Best to you. 208.92.45.29 (talk) 14:31, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

Sorry--I wasn't logged in. Thanks once again. TNYFiction (talk) 14:32, 28 April 2025 (UTC)

(outdent) Belatedly returning as original starter of this thread. My condolences to the family. I suspect the legal questions around the publication of the "letter" may prove rather complex (copyright on unpublished, original, and private content warring with fair use doctrine, all on a topic strong public interest by a public figure) but I am not a lawyer. Regardless, our needs as an encyclopedia do not necessitate including quotes from the letter ourselves, on privacy grounds, as well as to avoid giving undue weight to but one element of Kahneman's impressive life. I am comfortable with where we are now, namely a well-sourced factual statement about Kahneman's manner and location of death. I am not convinced that the discussion of the role of Pegasos isn't out of place in this article, but whether this is of abiding interest will self-clarify over time. Martinp (talk) 18:06, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Quite agree. It's not wholly a copyright issue. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:11, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

Many thanks for removing the quotation from the letter. The letter is, in fact, under copyright. The WSJ's publication of it in its entirety was both an ethical and a legal violation--not defensible as fair use. The manner of Daniel Kahneman's death may be a topic of voyeuristic interest, but was not intended to be a public statement or an entry into a larger debate on the ethics of assisted suicide. Your sensitivity on this subject is much appreciated.

My concern about the role of Pegasos being mentioned is both that Pegasos asks for privacy and that my stepfather did not make his arrangements with Pegasos directly.

Thank you again. TNYFiction (talk) 18:42, 20 May 2025 (UTC)

I've removed the text from the article at this time. Sennecaster (Chat) 22:47, 24 May 2025 (UTC)

Returning to this many months later. I continue to endorse our editorial decision to not quote the letter discussed above. However, our article now reads Given his personal experience with dementia, from which his wife Anne Treisman had suffered, Kahneman received assistance from the Swiss organization Pegasos, and died in the municipality of Nunningen, Switzerland. The manner and location of his death were only revealed in March 2025. This feels unnecessarily circumlocutory. Any objections to changing it to the following (italics to show change): Given his personal experience with dementia, from which his wife Anne Treisman had suffered, Kahneman received assistance in dying from the Swiss organization Pegasos, and died in the municipality of Nunningen, Switzerland. The manner and location of his death were only revealed in March 2025. This avoids the necessity of the reader having to click through to the Pegasos article to have the oblique reference makes sense, and yet avoids unncessarily sensationalism about suicide and assisted suicide.

While normally I would barely considered it even WP:BOLD to just make the change (and of course could be reverted by others), in view of the discussion a few months ago above, and apparently quite a lot of temp/anon attention to the sourcing of this article with regard to any articles which discuss Kahnemann's death, I'm asking here first. My proposed edit comes from the sense that, like it or not, the fact the Kahnemann turns out to have chosen this manner of death is newsworthy and appropriate to mention, but discussion of precisely what he may have communicated to whom about it are WP:UNDUE privacy violations. Thoughts? Martinp (talk) 18:31, 15 December 2025 (UTC)

Thank you, Martin. Yes, there is nothing to be done at this point about the release of the factual information relating to Daniel Kahneman's death. However, I am actively engaged at this point in a copyright violation case against the Wall Street Journal/Dow Jones for its illegal publication of the private letter. I appreciate your decision not to repeat and perpetuate that copyright violation here. TNYFiction (talk) 12:59, 22 December 2025 (UTC)

External link: Nobel Prize

I think "at Nobelprize.org" or "at Nobel Prize" would be better than "on Nobelprize.org" but don't see how to change "on" to "at". Mcljlm (talk) 14:41, 16 March 2025 (UTC)

This change request needs to be made at Template_talk:Nobelprize. MartinPoulter (talk) 21:23, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

Given a non sequitur

"Given his personal experience with dementia, from which his wife Anne Treisman had suffered, Kahneman received assistance in dying from the Swiss organization Pegasos, and died in the municipality of Nunningen, Switzerland." This makes no sense. First and flamingly OBVIOUS, the article makes no mention of dementia except this throw-away line. His wife died of a stroke, there is no mention on WP that she had dementia. If she did, citation please. The citation used here is dubious at best. So, if there is actually some "personal experience with dementia" then discuss it! Until it is discussed, it is NOT "given". Unless there's some reason to believe he was diagnosed with dementia or reason to believe he believed he was suffering from it, then why would his "personal experience" cause him to "fear" it? By the way, I don't know WPs position on fair use of copyrighted material, but if the WSJ article mentions dementia then it seems to me even if the extended quotation they had was a violation, an excerpt would be fair use here. (?) The bottom line is don't refer to facts not in evidence.~2025-39446-09 (talk) 00:57, 8 January 2026 (UTC)

Jeffrey Epstein

I didn't edit the main article because I suppose there are dozens and dozens of academics who appear in the Epstein files so I don't think it's fair to engage in guilt-by-association. However, unlike many others, Kahneman did appear to have personal lunches with Epstein long after he was a well-known convicted sex offender (circa 2018). I'll leave that here for discussion HardScience (talk) 13:17, 1 March 2026 (UTC)