Talk:Balkans

Proposed clarification of state inclusion wording (Danube–Sava–Kupa boundary)

The current paragraph on the countries included in the Balkans is unclear, especially regarding Slovenia.

At present, it says that Croatia is included “up to the Sava and Kupa rivers,” Romania is included “only Northern Dobruja,” and Serbia “up to the Danube.” This suggests that only parts of these countries fall within the Balkans. Meanwhile, Slovenia is described as the “lower southern portion,” which is vague and not linked to any clear boundary. This creates inconsistency: if rivers are being used to define the northern border, this should be applied consistently across all countries.

A commonly cited northern boundary of the Balkan Peninsula follows the Danube–Sava–Kupa (Kulpa) river system. Under this definition:

Croatia is included only south of the Sava and Kupa rivers, Slovenia only south of the Kupa River, Serbia only south of the Danube, and Romania typically only in Northern Dobruja.

Reliable sources for this include:

Joseph, Brian D.; Friedman, Victor A. (eds.). The Balkan Peninsula and Its Languages. Cambridge University Press (2004), citing Newbigin (1915) on the northern boundary along the Lower Danube, Sava, and Kupa/Kulpa toward Rijeka.

Luca, Denisa-Ștefania (2024). “The Balkans is the easternmost of Europe’s peninsulas… follows the geographical delimitations indicated by the Danube–Sava–Kupa line.” Central European Journal of Geography and Sustainable Development 6(2): 50–75.

Jelavich, Barbara (1983). History of the Balkans: Eighteenth and Nineteenth Centuries. Vol. 1. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 978-0521274586.

Proceedings of the scientific conference FRESKA (NUBL, 2022), noting that the northern border is often described along the Kupa, Sava, and Danube.

I suggest revising the sentence so that each country is described consistently according to the river-boundary definition. For example:

“Croatia (only the area south of the Sava and Kupa rivers), Slovenia (only south of the Kupa River), Serbia (up to the Danube river) and Romania (only areas south of the Danube).”

This would make the paragraph accurate and internally consistent. GerardSpel (talk) 17:57, 6 February 2026 (UTC)

Correction regarding Slovenia:

I realized that my earlier comment about Slovenia being “only south of the Kupa River” is not correct geographically. In fact the Kupa River is north of Bela Krajina so technically no part of Slovenia falls south of it. This means that the river-based northern boundary of the Balkans (Danube–Sava–Kupa) doesn’t really work for Slovenia.

A more neutral and precise approach is to describe Slovenia using the specific region of Bela Krajina in the southeast which is sometimes included in the Balkan Peninsula for cultural and historical reasons. This avoids vague phrasing like “lower southern portion” and keeps the description consistent with Croatia which is defined by rivers. GerardSpel (talk) 17:28, 9 February 2026 (UTC)

Update on my previous comment:

After looking further I realized that I could not find any reliable sources explicitly stating that Bela Krajina is part of the Balkan Peninsula. While one might argue culturally or historically that the region has connections with Croatia, this would be considered original research on Wikipedia.

For this reason I have edited the article to a more neutral/source-based phrasing:

Some broader definitions also include Slovenia (in a limited or partial sense, though sources do not specify regions).

This wording avoids unsourced regional claims while keeping the paragraph consistent with how other countries are described using river-based boundaries.

I’m happy to hear any thoughts or suggestions, and anyone is welcome to help improve this section or point me toward additional reliable sources if they exist. GerardSpel (talk) 18:37, 20 February 2026 (UTC)

This Is Southern Europe, Not Southeastern Europe

Balkan Peninsula is clearly the southernmost extreme of Europe. It is not southeastern.

Geographic center of Europe is Suchowola in northeastern Poland, near its eastern border.

Balkans is directly south of this. Not southeast.

What are you defining as Europe here geographically? Because if we are talking about the continent, it is clearly southern Europe.

How can Scandinavian Peninsula be northern Europe, according to Wikipedia, while the Balkan Peninsula which is basically exactly due south of this be southEASTERN Europe? ~2026-45289-57 (talk) 18:56, 18 August 2026 (UTC)

Geographic definition of the Balkans and the status of southern Slovenia

I would like to ask that further changes to the geographic definition of the southern part of Slovenia be discussed here on the talk page before the article is changed further.

The article currently relies on sources that define the northern boundary of the Balkans using the Sava–Kupa–Danube river system (or otherwise place the relevant part of Slovenia outside the Balkans). If there are reliable sources supporting a different geographic definition, those sources should be presented and discussed here rather than replacing the existing definition based on an individual interpretation.

Wikipedia articles should reflect the relevant reliable sources and consensus among editors, rather than having one geographic definition substituted for another without discussion. The fact that different definitions of the Balkans exist is not, by itself, a reason to select whichever definition an editor prefers; the particular definition used in the article should be supported by the sources cited there and applied consistently.

I therefore suggest that we pause further changes to this part of the article until the issue has been discussed on this talk page. If there is disagreement about which definition should be used, editors can compare the relevant reliable sources and reach consensus before making further substantive changes.

There is also a separate issue concerning the map currently used in the article. The boundaries shown on the map do not appear to correspond to the geographic definition described in the text/sources. I suggest discussing the map separately once the textual definition has been established, since the map should accurately reflect the definition adopted by the article.

Please provide the relevant reliable sources supporting any proposed alternative boundary or definition so that this can be resolved through discussion rather than repeated unilateral changes. GerardSpel (talk) 12:14, 23 September 2026 (UTC)